Universal Life Church/ULC Seminary Forum Home: Lesson 3 Spirit Quest - Universal Life Church/ULC Seminary Forum Home

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Lesson 3 Spirit Quest Beginning Meditation Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Rev. Don Bowes 

  • Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 05-July 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kingston, New York

Posted 26 July 2011 - 09:55 AM

Once again the source of this material and the qualifications of the teacher are not given. When one is engaging in any type of mind training they have a responsibility to know who is training them, their qualifications to teach and the source from which the training comes from.
What is meditation? It is simply the art of relaxation and resting in other words to sit still and be quiet. One relaxes the body and rest the mind. Visualizations, prayer and so forth maybe used as tools to attain the state of quietude but they are not meditation.
The practice given in this chapter might temporally give the practitioner a sense of well being but will not lead to deep understanding and realization. The study of chakras, winds, drops, and channels usually takes many years to learn and develop and under the guidance of a well trained and practiced master.
The new age approach to meditation says if it feels good do it, if it means I have to take responsibility for my actions and realize I am the source and cause of my existence both the good and the bad then forget it. Spiritual highs are not realizations and last only a short time.
"Meditation is about resting completely. Not just physically resting but resting completely. Complete rest includes letting go of all forms of mental effort." Anam Thubten "No Self No Problem."
Many Blessings,
Rev. Don Bowes
AKA The Venerable Yogi Konchog Jimpa Lama a Drikung Kagyu monk.
Rev. Don
0

#2 User is offline   Rev. Dave 

  • Senior Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 134
  • Joined: 28-January 11
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 July 2011 - 11:37 PM

Rev. Don:

I just started this course as well, and, yeah, it doesn't fall into strict meditational discipline, but it's of use. Bear in mind, as a minister, you're going to be dealing with people who aren't trained Buddhist monks, anymore than I'm going to consistently be ministering to Hermetic Qabalists. This is sort of an in- between sort of introductory meditational approach, and the visualization in the course does work. I'd have no problem laying some of these techniques on someone I'm counseling. You wouldn't try to throw someone right into the idea of The All as the great No Thing, would you? That's a tad heavy for the uninitiated, and certainly for a troubled person you're trying to help.

The argument might be more along the lines of "East vs. West," in fact. Our mystical approaches are quite different, if not in the final goal of Samadhi/ Nirvana, perhaps in approach. If you're going to set yourself up as a teacher, you can't poo- poo introductory approaches.

This course is sort of along the lines of "The Secret," which is best described as "Elementary Metaphysics," but it ain't bad. Approach it as something you can pass along to others, and, who knows? You might pick up something you haven't encountered before.

LVX,

Rev. Dave

This post has been edited by Rev. Dave: 26 July 2011 - 11:45 PM

0

#3 User is offline   Rev. Don Bowes 

  • Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 05-July 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kingston, New York

Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:57 AM

Hello Rev. Dave,
I am not sure I understand where you are getting the complexity of my teachings from? I teach shinay (calm abiding) to new students. What is often called breathing meditation, it requires 2-3 minutes to teach and I use it in stress situations where there is no time for grounding cords, golden suns and so forth. As for long term students there are 84,000 categories of the Buddhas teaching, each a lesson on how not to suffer.
The All as a Great No Thing? I can only guess at what you are talking about.
East/West, what western mysticism are you putting forth? All most all new age thought is borrowed from from the Eastern belief systems. They are like sound bites and have no true depth.
As to poo-pooing techniques you might wish to read the Kalama Sutra it can be found by web searching Kalama Sutra. The Buddha never taught that he was infallible and instructed his students to examine his teachings in depth and not except anything because he said so. He taught examination not casual acceptance. Just because something is scriptural, taught by sages or believed by millions of people does not make it truthful.
I would never teach anything that I do not know the source of the teaching or the qualifications of the teacher. I would never teach anything that I have not fully mastered myself, no matter how good it might seem to be. In Eastern belief systems you do not teach what you have not mastered (this takes years of study, contemplation, meditation, and prayer.
I have a deep respect for other peoples religions and beliefs and in the non-academic world I would not question them. My job is two fold to love them and to help them be better people if I am asked. In the academic environment one is there to learn and should examine everything closely,the teaching and the teacher. If it does not pass a casual examination there is no need for an in depth exploration.
mysticism: doctrines or beliefs of mystics: specifically, the doctrine that it is possible to achieve communion with God (what a Buddhist calls primordial wisdom) through contemplation and love without the medium of human reason.
2. any doctrine that asserts the possibility of attaining knowledge of spiritual truths through intuition acquired by fixed meditation.
Definition from Webster's Dictionary

Many Blessings,
Rev. Don









View PostRev. Dave, on 26 July 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

Rev. Don:

I just started this course as well, and, yeah, it doesn't fall into strict meditational discipline, but it's of use. Bear in mind, as a minister, you're going to be dealing with people who aren't trained Buddhist monks, anymore than I'm going to consistently be ministering to Hermetic Qabalists. This is sort of an in- between sort of introductory meditational approach, and the visualization in the course does work. I'd have no problem laying some of these techniques on someone I'm counseling. You wouldn't try to throw someone right into the idea of The All as the great No Thing, would you? That's a tad heavy for the uninitiated, and certainly for a troubled person you're trying to help.

The argument might be more along the lines of "East vs. West," in fact. Our mystical approaches are quite different, if not in the final goal of Samadhi/ Nirvana, perhaps in approach. If you're going to set yourself up as a teacher, you can't poo- poo introductory approaches.

This course is sort of along the lines of "The Secret," which is best described as "Elementary Metaphysics," but it ain't bad. Approach it as something you can pass along to others, and, who knows? You might pick up something you haven't encountered before.

LVX,

Rev. Dave

Rev. Don
0

#4 User is offline   Rev. Dave 

  • Senior Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 134
  • Joined: 28-January 11
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:09 PM

Howdy, Rev. Don.

No, I'm not accusing you of complexity- I well understand Buddhism doesn't work that way (used to practice sort of a Budo/Western- adapted version back in my earlier, and way younger, wilder Shotokan days).

When I speak of "western mysticism" or "western esotericism" I am emphatically not speaking of "new age" belief. There are specific practices in the W.E.T., consisting mostly of Jewish and Christian mysticism and practices. It's actually quite useful, and strictly disciplined. Having said that, yeah, let's face it, the ultimate goal here is to move towards an understanding of the simplicity of existence, but that a huge jump for the average person, especially the average westerner. And, yes, the visualizations we're talking about here are a sort of illusion, but they're an intermediate step that moves a practitioner to a more uncomplicated understanding.
Trust me; been there.
And I'm with ya on simple breathing meditation- that's how we start in this tradition, as well. Pretty universal.
What I am saying is that these are workable visualizations for somebody you may be ministering to who is getting started on a Path. Don't dismiss them lightly.

LVX,
Rev. Dave

This post has been edited by Rev. Dave: 03 August 2011 - 08:12 PM

0

#5 User is offline   Rev. Don Bowes 

  • Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 62
  • Joined: 05-July 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kingston, New York

Posted 04 August 2011 - 09:00 AM

Hello Rev. Dave,
This program is to complicted and much to violent. Someone entering the path should do so without gimmicy programs that ultimely fail. Loving kindness and compassion never fail. I am already on a path that long ago solved these issues without violence in a peaceful loving way.
"If you live in the ego, you automaticaly set up hostile situations of me and the rest of the world. To defend an ego you have to be selfish and you have to fear other people because they are threats to your well being. How can you trust anyone in a situation like that." (Papaji)
All sentient being wish for two things "to be happy and to be free of suffering." They can only do that when they stop creating story lines. Creating personas does not solve the problems, in the West we work very hard to make our problems larger and more complicated than they are, instead of smaller and smaller until they disappear. The root of these practices being taught is anger, hatred and violence which in the end will lead to only more anger, hatred and violence. The seeds one sows are the fruits they will reap. Better to plant the seeds of loving kindness and compassion.
I am not a psychologist so I do not use programs like this to minister to anyone. I teach loving kindness and compassion and simple meditative techniques. "All that we are is the result of what we have thought." (Buddha)

Many Blessings,
Rev. Don
Rev. Don
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users