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Points To Ponder Lesson 6

#1 User is offline   drlmorris 

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Posted 24 September 2009 - 10:36 AM

Please enter your answers to the questions given in this lesson here.
Instructor: Master of the Historical Jesus
Founder: The Historical Jesus Project
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#2 User is offline   graham 

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 11:28 AM

1. The Gospel of Thomas was discovered, along with fifty other documents, in 1945 at Nag Hammadi in Egypt and it was soon realised that this was a highly significant find although some of the documents in the collection had already been unearthed at Oxyrhynchus in 1897 and 1903. There is still much debate about the dating of the Gospel of Thomas with different schools of thought maintaining that it was written as early as 60AD and others placing its origins around 140 AD.

2. The Q (Quelle) collection of logia or sayings of Jesus is also the subject of a great deal of speculation and debate although efforts to discredit it over many decades have never fully succeeded and many authorities still view it as highly likely that it was prepared as a collection of Jesus' sayings and was of value to the writers of the synoptis gospels. It does contain elements which might indicate a gnostic frame of mind amongst its author(s) as it suggests a dualistic approach to the godhead and also is distinctly apocalyptic in its stance, representing Jesus as intending to return imminently and bring about a return of the kingdom of God. His purpose in striving to give mankind the knowledge to enable them to understand the purpose of God and to embrace his salvation, may reflect the concept of 'gnosis' the knowledge that would enable men to escape from the grip of the demiurge and return to the fold of the Pleroma, the one, true God.

3. The dating of the Q source is an important factor in assessing its value as a collection of the sayings of Jesus and the extent to which these faithfully reflect his words and outlook. If, as is widely suggested, they are incorporated in the gospels, especially Matthew and Luke, that indicates an early dating, possibly around 40-50AD. They are, however, only fragmentary and may or may not have been parts of longer discourses. Along with the canonical gospels, it is unlikely that they reflect the actual words of Jesus even if written soon after the life of Christ and we need also to take into account the tendency of human beings to adapt material to suit a developing cause even in the immediate aftermath of events. We cannot therefore speculate with any degree of certainty as to their greater value as representing the words of the historical Jesus although, were they to be discovered as a separate, unified collection which had not passed through the process of evaluation and been subjected to the test of apostolicity, we should then be able to assess their value more accurately.
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#3 User is offline   djuliano67 

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:27 AM

Master of the Historical JesusLesson 6

Thepossibility of the existence of Q has been strengthened by the discovery in1945 of the Gospel of Thomas, which is also collection of sayings withoutreference to the "story" of Jesus' life and works. Where was thisdiscovery made and what is the name of the collection that it was found in?

Its part of the Nag Hammadi library.




Why would someone intimate that the Q community may have hadGnostic leanings?

Youcould infer that Qs leans toward a more spiritual Kingdom of God that isinside us as opposed to a Heavenly one.




On a personal level, do you think that the Q source ismore than likely to be closer to what Jesus said than the canonical gospels?Why or Why not?

Ithink Q would more likely be closer since it seems to predate the Gospels andwe used in their writing.


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#4 User is offline   rev c watson 

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:44 PM

The Nag Hammadi Library, a collection of thirteen ancient codices containing over fifty texts, was discovered in the town of Nag Hammadi, in upper Egypt in 1945.

Taking your use of intimate as a transitive verb, It could possibly be that they did not want to look foolish by stating fact when fact is impossible to know. Hinting at it publicly is a delicate way offering it up for study.

I have no idea! It fits more in line with what I personally believe, and if it is true what it says in the Gospel of Thomas; "
Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom isin the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty." it only matters what we believe to be true.

Enjoy your next 24, PEACE!
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#5 User is offline   Wync 

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 02:13 AM

1. The Gospel of Thomas was discovered in upper Egypt, in Nag Hammadi. "Nag Hammadi Library" was adopted as a result of the body of work being found there.

2. "Q" is intimated to be Gnostic leaning because there is no record of it. During the establishment of the Orthodox Christianity in the 4th century, once the Bible was established the doctrine of Christendom, all books that was rejected by the Orthodox Catholicism were destroyed. The Gnostic texts were chief among the books that were destroyed. The Gospel of Thomas and other books that were considered "gnostic" in essence were only saved because of those who had the foresight to hide them.

3. If the assumptions made about "Q" are legitimately authentic, then yes, it is mostly likely the closest to what Jesus said than any book know to us at present. "Q" would have been written at a time closer to the existence of Jesus during his life on Earth
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