Universal Life Church/ULC Seminary Forum Home: Points To Ponder Lesson 3 - Universal Life Church/ULC Seminary Forum Home

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Points To Ponder Lesson 3

#1 User is offline   drlmorris 

  • Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 11-October 05
  • Location:United States

Posted 24 September 2009 - 10:33 AM

Please enter your answers to the questions given in this lesson here.
Instructor: Master of the Historical Jesus
Founder: The Historical Jesus Project
0

#2 User is offline   graham 

  • Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 59
  • Joined: 22-April 08

Posted 25 December 2009 - 08:35 AM

View Postdrlmorris, on Sep 24 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

Please enter your answers to the questions given in this lesson here.

1. Luther clearly did stimulate great interest in the quest for the historical Jesus albeit unintentionally as his aim was to protest against the way in which the Roman church had hijacked and abused the essential message of Christianity and used it to suit its own purposes in creating a wealthy and venal institution which preyed upon the faithful. In his 95 Theses of 1517, Luther aimed to show that the church no longer reflected its biblical roots, especially the teachings of Jesus. This was a constant complaint throughout the Middle Ages and Luther owes his success less to the novelty of his ideas than to the zeitgeist, both political and religious, which favoured his protests.

An essential part of his work was directed towards the translation of the New Testament into the vernacular as he considered it vital that the faithful should have access to the original teachings of Jesus rather than be wholly dependent on the interpretation provided by the clergy. This first stage in the dismantling and questioning of the pomp and panoply of the Roman Church surely opened the way to more specific analysis of the origins of the Christian religion and gave implicit authorisation to the notion that faith could be accompanied by the use of reason and historical method to provide extra insight into the life and teachings of Christ.

2. Religion, by definition, is a matter of faith and if it could be definitively proved, then it would involve no commitment or sacrifice and would become merely a universally accepted social routine. The sacred mystery is the essence of any religious creed and gives its adherents a sense of admission to an elite cadre of seekers after truth. This perhaps does make it difficult for those who are rooted by inclination in faith, to accept the growing school of thought which believes that theologians should go as far as possible in attempting to understand the context, personality and upbringing of Jesus whilst understanding at the same time that we cannot ever hope to prove his divinity and that faith will always be the determinant factor.

3. Reimarus may have scandalised his contemporaries (and we should remember that the Enlightenment was firmly rooted in Christian principles and culture and was newly permissive to a limited extent only), but this is clearly a valid theory and one which many senior clerics would not dismiss summarily. The comic film, the Life of Brian, illustrated how a series of bizarre coincidences and errors might have led to the origin of a new religion, especially given the frenetic messianic expectancy of the time which comprehended many strange possibilities. It is certainly not impossible that the disciples would have sought to preserve the remains of their adored leader if only out of concern as to how his persecutors might have used them. The ideas of Reimarus are no longer scandalous given the many theologians who are attempting to de-mythologise Jesus and to stress the essential themes against a background of informed research into the world in which Jesus lived and preached and the mindset that he needed to address in terms of metaphor and allegory that would appeal to a highly credulous constituency.
0

#3 User is offline   Wync 

  • Newbie
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 28-January 11
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 January 2011 - 09:47 AM

MASTER OF THE HISTORICAL JESUS
LESSON THREE: POINTS TO PONDER By Victor Robinson-Yarber

1. Martin Luther did help in opening the door but only in the broader sense. In taking the focus off of the “divine authority” of the Pope and instead focusing on Bibliology, this was in and of itself an evolution. Just like Martin Luther, through his self examination of the Bible, was able to observe the difference between what scripture teaches and what was practiced; someone else would examine the Bible and realize that perhaps they should approach the life of Jesus from a historical standpoint.

2. It was hard for believers to separate Jesus of history from Christ of faith because many of the believers were unable to read for themselves and only knew what they were taught by their churches and religious leaders. Also, once the Church had established a Biblical canon, anything that was perceived to challenge, add or take away from it was considered heresy and blasphemy.

3. If you eliminate faith, with the absence of irrefutable evidence, it is not beyond reason to acknowledge that Reimarus’ theory is within a strong realm of possibility. In the end, it comes down to what people choose to believe.
0

#4 User is offline   Wync 

  • Newbie
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 28-January 11
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 January 2011 - 03:43 AM

MASTER OF THE HISTORICAL JESUS
LESSON THREE: POINTS TO PONDER By Victor Robinson-Yarber

1. Martin Luther did help in opening the door but only in the broader sense. In taking the focus off of the “divine authority” of the Pope and instead focusing on Bibliology, this was in and of itself an evolution. Just like Martin Luther, through his self examination of the Bible, was able to observe the difference between what scripture teaches and what was practiced; someone else would examine the Bible and realize that perhaps they should approach the life of Jesus from a historical standpoint.

2. It was hard for believers to separate Jesus of history from Christ of faith because many of the believers were unable to read for themselves and only knew what they were taught by their churches and religious leaders. Also, once the Church had established a Biblical canon, anything that was perceived to challenge, add or take away from it was considered heresy and blasphemy.

3. If you eliminate faith, with the absence of irrefutable evidence, it is not beyond reason to acknowledge that Reimarus’ theory is within a strong realm of possibility. In the end, it comes down to what people choose to believe.
0

#5 User is offline   rev c watson 

  • Senior Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 106
  • Joined: 22-September 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northwood, OH
  • Interests:Family, ministry, learning, riding my Harley, fishing

Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:23 AM

Absolutely, he had a profound effect. He questioned the Roman Catholic church, and paved the way for others to question the churches teachings. It's human nature to be skeptical, especially of something you haven't witnessed with your own eye's. Looking at it from a 16th century standpoint, most people were illiterate and relied on someone else's interpretations of scripture (honestly, not unlike today). What made it believable to the common man was probably because it came from within the Priesthood. It was easier for people to swallow the idea that they are doing good works because they want to, not because they have to, in order to receive Gods Grace.

Believers have Faith in the supernatural, without that, it would just be words of a man. Let's face it, what do you think is a better conclusion to life, living forever in eternal bliss, or cessation?

I suppose anything is possible,anyone can say anything, it really comes down to what your personal beliefs are. Part of me are skeptical, but I haven't studied this enough. Ask me that question after the class is complete! (I need to find out what kind of man Reimarus was)
0

#6 User is offline   Heidi Jury 

  • Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 13-April 17

Posted 18 April 2017 - 08:33 AM

View Postdrlmorris, on 24 September 2009 - 11:33 AM, said:

Please enter your answers to the questions given in this lesson here.

Quote

"Live, Love, Learn, and Leave a Legacy. That's what we all want." - Stephen Covey


I won't soon forget that strange day when my roommates sat me down with great urgency. I was just 18 years old, in my 2nd year of university, and to them, a very strange Christian girl.....at least they still allowed me to live with them; my first roommate had moved dorm rooms after only 10 minutes because she was afraid I was a religious fanatic. The new roommates at least had the courage to have a conversation and so they began, "Why couldn't Jesus just have been a really good man?" I have never had any delusions of ultimate truth, even as the daughter of 2 ministers and so I said, "I don't know.....why couldn't Jesus just have been a really good man?" I guess they thought I would fight them. The truth is, all I knew was what I know now. When I was young, I was told a story....about Jesus. Period. That's it. Whether that story is a story of faith, of truth, of history....I didn't know then and I don't know now. All I know is - it was a story - I loved stories....and that particular story moved me enough to keep hearing the story of Jesus in many different ways, communities, forms, and experiences of all kinds. To different people, the story means different things, and as I like to hear their story as well, so I listen.....



The above tale is to indicate the type of bias that I bring to the study of the "historical Jesus" - the quest where we ask about Jesus, the historical figure, quite separately from his role of a prophet of faith, or as a divine being, or even as a character. If I am to abandon the story of my childhood for the historical quest, then I do so with some disclaimers. First, after having studied history off and on for the past 5 years, I have learned how difficult a quest it is to begin. History is wrought with issues - including, but not limited to, the dependence on written words (problematic document errors with 5000 copies of the New Testament no 2 are exactly the same!) combined with archeological evidence (absolutely no pots made by Jesus that I am aware of), the challenge of reading documents as history that clearly were not intended to record history, to say nothing of the complete lack of a time machine to go back on spy on Jesus and his disciples. Second, although I have met several people out there that are certainly more interested in the history of Jesus, I have never experienced much demand for debates on the finer points of the historical Jesus in any public arena - I just hope that this quest can be used to connect with someone!



Still, I am very grateful to Martin Luther, who probably accidentally started the first quest on the historical Jesus by criticizing the unquestionable traditions of Church authorities. Having the New Testament translated into German likely helped as well. Like most of the people that have attempted the "Historical Jesus" quest, I too find it difficult to separate the Jesus of history from the Jesus of faith - mainly because I have had so many more experiences where Jesus is presented from a faith point of view rather than from the point of view of history.



I spent Easter considering what the Easter story would mean if Jesus' resurrection was just a fictional account made up by the disciples who stole Jesus' body off of the cross because they were embarrassed (Hermann Samuel Reimarus' theory). While I am not convinced that we have the historical evidence to prove Reimarus' theory either, I realized that, at least for me, Jesus' message without the resurrection still holds enormous meaning. With or without the resurrection, there is still much to DO: the poor to feed, people to be loved, hope to be spread. Jesus' life still holds enormous weight. His life, whether biographical, or divine, or merely fiction has changed the history of Western Civilization. Most importantly, for me....the story of Jesus (historically accurate or not) still inspires me to re-invent my own life once a year (at least). As a creation myth, Jesus' life still provides me with enough imaginative fodder to re-envision my life in new ways - an ever constant process of re-creation. And as Jesus did, I hope to one day leave a legacy of my own....




0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic